Author Topic: What is Old School Gaming?  (Read 20962 times)

jason

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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2009, 11:30:20 AM »
Quote from: John
3:16 Carnage Amongst the Stars which is a story game that can be hack and slash without any changes rule wise.

In 3:16, you have only two stats: Fighting and Not Fighting. It was designed to be a hack-and-slash game.

Quote from: Jim
I don't have a lot of experience with "story games", but all the "rules light" games I have ever played always seemed like the GM was just telling a story and what the characters did really didn't alter the storyline all that much.

"Solid rules" do not mean "lots of rules." Frankly, the most solid rules sets I've played with tend to also be light, because they're very tightly interwoven and work together very elegantly to achieve a particular effect. Achieving that with a very large, complex rules set would be very difficult. Kind of like Euro-games.
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Evernevermore

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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2009, 12:37:17 PM »
And Jason? Your focusing too much in numbers  :P - the real focus f 3:16 isn't combat (that's the vehicle) its a story of soldiers in a war they probably don't totally agree with. Its no more hack and slash then Apocalypse Now or the novel Starship Troopers was. The focus of the story is the development of the characters though the use of Strengths and Weaknesses. Sure it can be played as a hack and slash but I'd bet any game could with sufficient effort ( whether the result is worth the effort is a hugely different matter)
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mag120

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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2009, 04:15:11 PM »
Mag - I understand where your coming from, but I believe hack and slash is a style of play not game.

Certainly, you could play a hack and slash 4e game, just as you could run a more story-driven game with older systems.  I think the new versions of D&D seem to have added certain points specifically to give it the more "cinematic" feel, but there's nothing in the rules saying you *must* play in a particular style.

But it sounds to me like your issue may be primarily with railroading, which is a problem you can run into with any GM-driven game.  So I would consider the things you pointed out in the original post to also be matters of style rather than mechanics.

I don't have a lot of experience with "story games", but all the "rules light" games I have ever played always seemed like the GM was just telling a story and what the characters did really didn't alter the storyline all that much.

Really?  I always had the opposite impression.  Because in story games, the players often have a lot more power to influence the story beyond simply reacting to what the GM throws at them.  In something like Ganakagok, for instance, the players basically compete with the GM for narration.  So it's about the group creating a story collaboratively.  Whereas in D&D, the GM plans out the encounters and has final say over everything that happens, so the players often end up playing the GM's story with little deviation.  But that's just my two coppers.

Sure it can be played as a hack and slash but I'd bet any game could with sufficient effort ( whether the result is worth the effort is a hugely different matter)

I don't know.  It seems like it would be difficult to play, for instance, Penny for My Thoughts, as a hack and slash.

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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2009, 05:06:49 PM »
Oh I'm sure it would be hard but I don't like saying something is impossible till I've worked it over - but like I said mag, whether its worth the effort is a whole nother matter. Hehe - it would be a perverse achievement though...

 I agree that what Jim mentions about rules light games runs counter to my experience. Usually the rules light games I've played have built in features ala Savage Worlds bennies that allow players to dramatically edit the story. In fact I'm working on a reliable method in my Dark Sun game to do that, with the intent of using either that or a variation of 3:16s strengths and weaknesses in my games. I like the idea of giving players tangible ways of twisting or flavoring the game - as I spend most of my time resolving how the players actions interact with the world then forcing things.


Any thoughts on a good story game for Jim to try
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jason

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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2009, 10:29:55 PM »
Any thoughts on a good story game for Jim to try

You wanted to play Dogs in the Vineyard, didn't you, Jim? Or did you say you'd already played that? I wouldn't mind running that, if you have the second slot open at January Games Day.
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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2010, 12:36:29 PM »
Any other options?
Quoteth the Raven, "Nevermore".

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mag120

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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2010, 06:47:31 PM »
Oh I'm sure it would be hard but I don't like saying something is impossible till I've worked it over - but like I said mag, whether its worth the effort is a whole nother matter. Hehe - it would be a perverse achievement though...

Now I actually want to play a hack and slash Penny for My Thoughts game just to see what it would look like.  ;D

Any thoughts on a good story game for Jim to try

I would second Dogs in the Vineyard.  That's a good one.  I've also had a lot of fun with In a Wicked Age, which was designed by the same guy.  The mechanics seem a little clunky in some parts, but I really like the tone of the game.  And the character creation is really cool.  If you're looking for ways to limit GM railroading ability, this one kind of works because all of the game elements are generated randomly at the table.  And like I said, Ganakagok is also really good if you haven't tried it yet.  It probably has the tightest game mechanics of any indie game I've tried yet, so it might make a good transition for someone who's used to crunchier games.

jason

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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2010, 09:45:33 PM »
I think DitV would make a good transition, because it keeps your traditional GM + party dynamic. Plus, it seems doubly appropriate for Jim, because he likes gritty games.
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mag120

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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2010, 12:18:34 AM »
I think DitV would make a good transition, because it keeps your traditional GM + party dynamic.

True.  Mechanically, Dogs is more D&D-esque than a lot of the indie/story games out there.  It's also just a lot of fun to play a Mormon cowboy paladin.  :)

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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2010, 10:06:57 AM »
I'm willing to try anything.  And frankly, the more un-like D&D it is, the better.  I like the mechanics of D&D 3.5, but the whole medieval fantasy genre has just been done to death.  I've been playing D&D for nearly 30 years now, and although I still enjoy it, I would like to try something else too.

Now for something completely different... :)

So, pick a game, and I'll try it.  I am going to try to be at game day from 12-8 this month, but I can't guarantee anything, because life just doesn't usually allow for that anymore.  So, Jason, if you want to run something, great, but don't run it just for me.
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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2010, 11:24:22 AM »
your welcome to drop in my barbarians of lemuria game if your free for the second slot Jim - otherwise good luck Jim
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jason

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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2010, 07:01:42 PM »
I've got a playtest of my own game in the first slot. If you're open for the second slot, I always enjoy a good game of Dogs.

I've actually got to see if I can get my Fifth World playtest moved up to the second slot this month. My wife's work schedule makes my attendance at the first slot...difficult. I wouldn't call a game still in playtesting the best representative sample upon which to form your opinion of story games, but I'd certainly appreciate your opinion if you're willing to give it a try!

If you want to play Dogs, though, I'd be happy to bring it in February.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 09:01:33 PM by jason »
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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2010, 07:32:53 AM »
Late comment on the "Old-Skool/Retro" discussion:

Old-skool/retro is becoming business.  Last night I stumbled upon (failed my saving throw) a start up business called Chaotic Henchmen Productions (CHiPs anyone?) dedicated to producing new modules for AD&D 1st Edition.  The external artwork on the new 2009 modules looks like TSR module cover artwork (which wasn't that great) giving their product the proper campy appearance.  However, while they have the "design sensibilities" of AD&D 1st Edition, the layout of their new-retro modules (almost an oxymoron) is "more modern."
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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2010, 08:39:13 AM »
While OSRIC is a 1st edition clone, I think I prefer the Labyrinth Lord retro-clone with the Advanced Edition Companion rules, so that you can play separate races and classes with the older D&D rules.

I'd like to give Labyrinth Lord a shot with those optional AD&D-like rules thrown in.

Both are downloadable here without the artwork:

http://www.goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.html


I've also kicked around the idea of running a very rules-lite BRP fantasy game.

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Re: What is Old School Gaming?
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2010, 06:51:01 PM »
Well when you get down to what old school gaming is, 1st edition isn't it. 1st edition is definitely retro but its part of the march to the "one ruleset to rule them all" mentality that organized tournament play created. OSG is intended to be more of a collaborative ruleset
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