Author Topic: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications  (Read 5441 times)

Da King

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A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« on: January 12, 2009, 12:50:14 PM »
Reading through the Saga 1 Web Addendum (vol 1), I noticed a few things we are currently doing wrong, or were not sure of.  Some of these came up during the Demo Day on Dec 29th.

RANGED ATTACKS WITH AREA EFFECTS
Here is the quote from the Addendum.  Color emphasis added by me.

Quote
Certain special Ranged Attacks allow Characters to affect multiple enemies. Generally, these Attacks target a specific enemy unit and success in hitting this target is necessary to produce the explosion that affects the rest.  If a Character designated as primary target successfully defends itself from the attack (that is, stops it from hitting in some way), the attack has been stopped or deflected before it hits.

When a Ranged Attack with Area Effect is declared against a target, the target must declare whether or not it will dodge.  Only if the Attack is successful is it necessary to measure the area and determine how many miniatures are affected.  Then, all characters inside the affected area must state if they will Dodge or not, knowing already the final result of the Attack.

Although it’s possible for a miniature in the trajectory of the shot to Intercept the Attack, the Area Effects can’t be intercepted once it has hit the target.

Here is a breakdown of the sequence.

1. The attacker declares its primary target, as normal
2. The attack my be intercepted at this point, as normal
3. The target chooses to dodge
4. The attacker (and defender if dodging) roll for the attack
5. If the attack fails (either through a poor roll or successful dodge), the attack ends with no further effect
6. If the attack succeeds, then the AoE is measured, and all effected characters decide to dodge or not.  The attack roll from the primary is used for all AoE targets.

So basically, you only make 1 attack roll for all targets, and the targets in the AoE can decide to dodge or not AFTER seeing if the attack succeeds, and by how much.  We were playing it that the attacker makes a separate attack roll for each and every target in the AoE (which is wrong).  There may be exceptions, but these will be clearly stated on the character's card.


NON-RANGED ATTACKS WITH AREA EFFECTS
As per ranged attacks with area effects, you only make 1 die roll, and apply the results to all eligible targets (see exceptions below).  The difference is that all eligible targets must declare the intent to dodge BEFORE the attack roll is made.

There are exceptions where you will roll 1 die per each eligible target, and they will be clearly defined on the character's card.  If this is not clearly stated, then you default to rolling 1 die and applying the results to all eligible targets as above.


HIDDEN UNITS AND AREA ATTACKS
Another one we were not sure of is what happens to hidden characters inside the range of an area attack.  According to the Addendum, hidden units can be affected by area attacks.  Now this does not specifically call out AoE ranged attacks, so it seems like any sort of attack that targets others in range would apply.


USING RANGED ATTACKS IN CLOSE COMBAT
Characters are allowed to use their ranged attacks against anyone they are engaged in close combat with.  They cannot attack someone they are not engaged with.


GNOSIS POINTS
A few characters have been released that reference Gnosis points, and this was clarified on the Anima boards.

Each warband gets 1 Gnosis point per 100 levels of characters.  A Gnosis point can be spent to add an additional die (d10) to any roll, and you keep the best result.  Gnosis points refresh each round.


DAMAGE RESISTANCE
This is apparently the new name for Damage Resistance Entity, as explained on Konosuke's card.  Damage Resistance means you cannot spend APs for dodges or counterattacks.  Apparently your life points are high enough that you "resist" damage.  Bad choice of phrase IMO.

The upside is you never lose actions from falls or crashes.


Seal state is even more nasty than it seams.  It blocks ALL (and I mean ALL) special abilities, except Damage Resistance.  That means no exploding Konosukes, no Initiative, innate ranged attacks, critical mastery, etc.  Everything printed on the characters' cards is affected by Seal, except Damage Resistance.  This also affects Advantage cards that grant special abilities as well, like Raphael's Gift.


HASTE STATE AND WHEN TO RESOLVE IT
Here's another rule that is being changed in the full rulebook.

In the current rules, Haste state counters allow you to recover an additional action point in the Recovery phase.

In the full rules is that the Haste counter is resolved during the Maintenance phase.  This will be VERY useful to pay for upkeep spells, as you could potentially enter the Action phase without being 1 AP down, since if you were already at full AP, the haste isn't wasted as it was before.

Example:  You can either
1. get an additonal action point (still can't go over max)
2. trade it in to pay for an upkeep spell

Quote
In fact, that's perfectly correct; simply, it is state in Saga 2 that you recover the Action Point in the Maintenance Phase, in the moment you remove the Haste Counter. ^^


CHARGING INTO BASE CONTACT
When executing a charge attack, you may only end your movement in base contact with 1 opponent.

Quote
Quote
Does Samiel's charge use the Dark Lions rule?
No; because you can't touch more than one base during a charge.

Quote
What happens if two minis are close enough that charging one of them gets you in base to base contact with another mini. Do you chose one to complete the charge and ignore the other?
You need to put in contact with just one.

Here's the link to the thread.

http://www.edgeent.com/animaforum/index.php?topic=2259.0


Thanks,
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 06:33:31 PM by Da King »
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Tioch

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2009, 03:37:56 PM »
Ok, so does this rule, though, apply to Konosuke's "attack every enemy in 2 inches" ability? It's a (Ki, Attack) on the card I believe. If it does, that's a pretty big change for that ability, considering we were rolling for each attack.

Hmm, have to see who in my group has an AOE...
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Da King

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 03:40:59 PM »
Ok, so does this rule, though, apply to Konosuke's "attack every enemy in 2 inches" ability? It's a (Ki, Attack) on the card I believe. If it does, that's a pretty big change for that ability, considering we were rolling for each attack.

Hmm, have to see who in my group has an AOE...


Received an answer on the Anima boards.  The ruling is for ranged attacks only.  All other attackes make separate rolls for multiple characters.  I'll modify the first post, and post another clarification there as well.

Thanks,
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Tioch

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 03:46:57 PM »
Much appreciated. Hmm, have to work on some other way to make the big K a super beast.  ;D
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Da King

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2009, 11:57:56 AM »
Ok, so does this rule, though, apply to Konosuke's "attack every enemy in 2 inches" ability? It's a (Ki, Attack) on the card I believe. If it does, that's a pretty big change for that ability, considering we were rolling for each attack.

Hmm, have to see who in my group has an AOE...


Received an answer on the Anima boards.  The ruling is for ranged attacks only.  All other attackes make separate rolls for multiple characters.  I'll modify the first post, and post another clarification there as well.

Thanks,

Well, it looks that that initial response may not have been correct.  I'm going back and forth with a few stubborn people that apparently don't like to give clear answers.  ::)

Anyway, it seems to be leaning towards 1 attack roll, "unless otherwise specified".  The problem is looking at all the characters I have, I can't tell the difference between 1 attack roll, and multiple attack rolls.  I need a reference for "unless otherwise specified".

I'll keep you guys in the loop.

Thanks,
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Ashkettle

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2009, 01:05:49 PM »
Thanks. 

Yeah, I'm still lurking.

Da King

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2009, 05:07:17 PM »
OK, it seems that the initial response was incorrect.  "Unless otherwise specified" means the special ability will specifically tell you to roll a separate die for each attack.

So, for any non-ranged area attack, you roll 1 die and apply the result to all affected models.  This means that if you roll a 10, all models are critically hit.  All dodges must be declared before the attack is made, so you don't get to see the result of the attack like secondary damage from ranged attacks.  These may be good time to spend those Gnosis points.  ;)

This is a big change on how we were playing area attacks, but not necessarily a bad one.

I'll modify the first post to include this info.

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Da King

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2009, 03:36:33 PM »
Got a couple more clarifications.

1. Damage Resistance:  This is apparently the new name for Damage Resistance Entity, as explained on Konosuke's card.  Damage Resistance means you cannot spend APs for dodges or counterattacks.  Apparently your life points are high enough that you "resist" damage.  Bad choice of phrase IMO.

2. Seal effect is even more nasty than it seams.  It blocks ALL (and I mean ALL) special abilities, except Damage Resistance.  That means no exploding Konosukes, no Initiative, innate ranged attacks, critical mastery, etc.  Everything printed on the characters' cards is affected by Seal, except Damage Resistance.

Thanks,
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Tioch

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2009, 04:11:49 PM »
Wow... That is really flipping cheesy... Damage Resistance means you have a high health and no ability to dodge or counterattack... I think that's an incredibly bad choice of phrasing. I mean, they should have called it like Sluggish or Ponderous, meaning you're so large that you can't dodge. I cry foul.

And whoopie that Damage Resistance isn't affected by Seal! I mean, it'd be great that by sealing me I actually get to dodge.  >:(

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Da King

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 03:39:01 PM »
Wow... That is really flipping cheesy... Damage Resistance means you have a high health and no ability to dodge or counterattack... I think that's an incredibly bad choice of phrasing. I mean, they should have called it like Sluggish or Ponderous, meaning you're so large that you can't dodge. I cry foul.

And whoopie that Damage Resistance isn't affected by Seal! I mean, it'd be great that by sealing me I actually get to dodge.  >:(



There is some benefit to Damage Reduction.  You don't lose action points to falls or crashes when thrown.

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Da King

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2009, 03:42:40 PM »
Here's another rule that is being changed in the full rulebook.

In the current rules, Haste counters allow you to recover an additional action point in the Recovery phase.

In the full rules (and what will apparently be used at GENCON) is that the Haste counter is resolved during the Maintenance phase.

You can either
1. get an additonal action point (still can't go over max)
2. trade it in to pay for an upkeep spell

This will be VERY useful to pay for upkeep spells, as you could potentially enter the Action phase without being 1 AP down, since if you were already at full AP, the haste isn't wasted as it was before.

Quote
In fact, that's perfectly correct; simply, it is state in Saga 2 that you recover the Action Point in the Maintenance Phase, in the moment you remove the Haste Counter. ^^

This is the bad part of not being able to explain it "better" in english how some things are used in the Full Rules. Sorry.

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Tioch

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2009, 05:18:49 PM »
There is some benefit to Damage Reduction.  You don't lose action points to falls or crashes when thrown.

The thing is, besides Lorenzo the super and whomever threw him last night, what characters actually have throw as an ability? I mean, if throw was a basic action on top of attack and charge, I guess it would make sense. I just think it's bad phrasing. It's not any form of damage "reduction" because it doesn't reduce the amount of damage done. It simply lowers the overall "percentage" of damage done compared to how much life points you have. At the same time, though, it limits your ability to actually stop that damage from occurring. I think I liked the statement on Konosuke's card that basically said "you can't dodge or counterattack". Armor reduces the damage taken, so if they would have said it's an ability that grants higher armor but eliminates your ability to dodge would have made more sense.  None of this BS that it's because you have more life points... Really they should have avoided giving it a fancy name and avoided any sort of discrepency.

As for the Haste ruling, that's not a bad idea. In the case of things like Derek, I could see where this would be useful considering of his upkeep buff. Is there a card that grants characters haste more than once? Some characters with stealth would benefit (namely characters like cordelia and alessa) who's APs are relatively low, but their abilities require a high percentage of of their AP.

Well, Anima is 1 for 2 in my book so far. Not bad.

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Da King

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2009, 11:11:32 AM »
Here's another one.

Quote
Quote
Does Samiel's charge use the Dark Lions rule?
No; because you can't touch more than one base during a charge.

Quote
What happens if two minis are close enough that charging one of them gets you in base to base contact with another mini. Do you chose one to complete the charge and ignore the other?
You need to put in contact with just one.

Here's the link to the thread.

http://www.edgeent.com/animaforum/index.php?topic=2259.0

Thanks,
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Tioch

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2009, 02:40:05 PM »
Albeit that I worry about splitting hairs with terminology rulings, I agree with this one. It is a balancing rule. Now, the thing to do is make a character with an AOE charge. Maybe the Fire Elemental! Basically, charge, if it hits, then causes X damage to characters within 2". 
"They don't like it when you shoot at them. I figured that out myself" - Sgt Mal Reynolds

"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk" - Tuco

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Da King

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Re: A couple Anima Tactics rules clarifications
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2009, 06:35:05 PM »
I moved all the recent clarifications into the first post of this thread.

Enjoy,
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